Descendance does not satisfy image condition

From Groupprops

This article gives the statement, and possibly proof, of a subgroup property (i.e., descendant subgroup) not satisfying a subgroup metaproperty (i.e., image condition).
View all subgroup metaproperty dissatisfactions | View all subgroup metaproperty satisfactions|Get help on looking up metaproperty (dis)satisfactions for subgroup properties
Get more facts about descendant subgroup|Get more facts about image condition|

Statement

It is possible to have groups and , a descendant subgroup of and a surjective homomorphism such that is not a descendant subgroup of .

Proof

Example of the infinite dihedral group

We take:

  • to be the infinite dihedral group. We can take the presentation .
  • to be a subgroup of order two complementary to the cyclic maximal subgroup, i.e., is a subgroup generated by a reflection. In the above presentation, we can take .
  • to be the quotient of by the subgroup generated by multiples of 3 in the cyclic maximal subgroup, with the natural quotient map. In symbols, . is isomorphic to symmetric group:S3, and the image of under the quotient map corresponds to S2 in S3.

We can check that:

  • is descendant in : It is the intersection of the following descending chain of subgroups, each of index two in its predecessor, hence each normal in its predecessor:

  • The image of in is not descendant in : The image looks like S2 in S3, which is a subgroup of a finite group, and is in fact a contranormal subgroup, so it cannot be descendant.