Permutability is not finite-intersection-closed: Difference between revisions

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It is possible to find a group <math>G</math> and subgroups <math>H</math> and <math>K</math> of <math>G</math> such that <math>H</math> and <math>K</math> are both [[permutable subgroup]]s (viz quasinormal subgroups) but <math>H \cap K</math> is not.
It is possible to find a group <math>G</math> and subgroups <math>H</math> and <math>K</math> of <math>G</math> such that <math>H</math> and <math>K</math> are both [[permutable subgroup]]s (viz quasinormal subgroups) but <math>H \cap K</math> is not.
==Related facts==
===Related facts that don't hold for permutable subgroups===
* [[Permutability is not upper join-closed]]
* [[Permutable not implies normal]]
===Related facts that do hold for permutable subgroups===
* [[Permutability is strongly join-closed]]
* [[Permutability satisfies image condition]]
* [[Permutability satisfies inverse image condition]]
* [[Permutability satisfies intermediate subgroup condition]]
* [[Permutability satisfies transfer condition]]


==Proof==
==Proof==
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* <math>G = A \times C</math>.
* <math>G = A \times C</math>.
* <math>B = \{ b \}</math>.
* <math>B = \{ b \}</math>.
* <math>H = A \times \{ e \}</math>, and <math>K = B \times C = \{b , c\}</math>.
* <math>B_0 = H \cap K = B \times \{ e \}</math>.


We claim that: <math>H = A \times \{ e \}</math>, and <math>K = B \times C = \{b , c\}</math>, give the required counterexample.
We claim that <math>H</math> and <math>K</math> are both permutable in <math>G</math>, but their intersection <math>B_0 = H \cap K</math> is not permutable.
 
===Proof of the claim===
 
<math>H = A \times \{ e \}</math> is permutable: <math>H</math> is a [[direct factor]] of <math>G</math> so it is clearly a [[normal subgroup]] and hence a permutable subgroup.
 
<math>K = B \times C = \{ b,c \}</math> is permutable: Since permutability satisfies the inverse image condition, we see that if <math>B</math> is permutable in <math>A</math>, then <math>B \times C = \{ b, c\}</math> is permutable in <math>G</math>. Thus, it suffices to show that <math>B</math> is permutable as a subgroup of <math>A</math>. This can easily be checked by verifying that <math>B</math> commutes with all the cyclic subgroups of <math>A</math>. (a proof of this is provided in an example for [[permutable not implies normal]]).


<math>B</math> is not permutable: Consider the cyclic subgroup <math>D</math> generated by <math>(a,c)</math>. The claim is that <math>BD \ne DB</math>. To prove this notice that <math>(a,c)(b,1) = (ab,c) = (ba^{p+1},c)</math>. This is clearly not in <math>BD</math>.
* <math>H = A \times \{ e \}</math> is permutable: <math>H</math> is a [[direct factor]] of <math>G</math> so it is clearly a [[normal subgroup]] and hence a permutable subgroup.
* <math>K = B \times C = \{ b,c \}</math> is permutable: Since permutability satisfies the inverse image condition, we see that if <math>B</math> is permutable in <math>A</math>, then <math>B \times C = \{ b, c\}</math> is permutable in <math>G</math>. Thus, it suffices to show that <math>B</math> is permutable as a subgroup of <math>A</math>. This can easily be checked by verifying that <math>B</math> commutes with all the cyclic subgroups of <math>A</math>. (a proof of this is provided in an example for [[permutable not implies normal]]).
* <math>B_0 = H \cap K = B \times \{ e \}</math> is not permutable in <math>G</math>: Consider the cyclic subgroup <math>D</math> generated by <math>(a,c)</math>. The claim is that <math>B_0D \ne DB_0</math>. To prove this notice that <math>DB_0 \ni (a,c)(b,e) = (ab,c) = (ba^{p+1},c)</math>. This is clearly not in <math>B_0D</math>.


==Further fact shown by the example==
==Further fact shown by the example==

Revision as of 20:50, 26 February 2009

This article gives the statement, and possibly proof, of a subgroup property (i.e., permutable subgroup) not satisfying a subgroup metaproperty (i.e., finite-intersection-closed subgroup property).
View all subgroup metaproperty dissatisfactions | View all subgroup metaproperty satisfactions|Get help on looking up metaproperty (dis)satisfactions for subgroup properties
Get more facts about permutable subgroup|Get more facts about finite-intersection-closed subgroup property|

Statement

Verbal statement

The intersection of two permutable subgroups of a group need not be permutable.

Symbolic statement

It is possible to find a group G and subgroups H and K of G such that H and K are both permutable subgroups (viz quasinormal subgroups) but H∩K is not.

Related facts

Related facts that don't hold for permutable subgroups

Related facts that do hold for permutable subgroups

Proof

Construction of the counterexample

Setup: Let p be an odd prime.

  • A is a group generated by two elements a,b subject to the relations ap2=1,bp=1 and ab=bap+1. Alternatively A is the semidirect product of the additive group modulo p2 by the multiplicative group of order p in the multiplicative group of automorphisms. Note that A is a non-Abelian group of order p3.
  • C is a cyclic group of order p2, generated by an element c.
  • G=A×C.
  • B={b}.
  • H=A×{e}, and K=B×C={b,c}.
  • B0=H∩K=B×{e}.

We claim that H and K are both permutable in G, but their intersection B0=H∩K is not permutable.

  • H=A×{e} is permutable: H is a direct factor of G so it is clearly a normal subgroup and hence a permutable subgroup.
  • K=B×C={b,c} is permutable: Since permutability satisfies the inverse image condition, we see that if B is permutable in A, then B×C={b,c} is permutable in G. Thus, it suffices to show that B is permutable as a subgroup of A. This can easily be checked by verifying that B commutes with all the cyclic subgroups of A. (a proof of this is provided in an example for permutable not implies normal).
  • B0=H∩K=B×{e} is not permutable in G: Consider the cyclic subgroup D generated by (a,c). The claim is that B0D≠DB0. To prove this notice that DB0∋(a,c)(b,e)=(ab,c)=(bap+1,c). This is clearly not in B0D.

Further fact shown by the example

This example shows some further facts:

  • The intersection of a permutable subgroup with a direct factor need not be a permutable subgroup. In this example, for instance, A is a direct factor, but its intersection with C is still not a permutable subgroup.
  • A permutable subgroup of a direct factor need not be a permutable subgroup. In this case B=A∩C is a permutable subgroup inside A, which itself is a direct factor.
  • Permutability is not a direct product-closed subgroup property